The Dallas native says “women’s basketball needs some reparations.”

When the NCAA announced that it would begin to pay the women’s basketball teams who matriculated through their tournament, I was stunned—it’s 2025, haven’t the women been getting paid for a while now? I turned to former University of Texas star baller, Fran Harris, for perspective. Harris led the Longhorns to win their first NCAA title in 1986, worked on staff in the years since, and played for two WNBA teams. She also played overseas. 

More recently, she’s been busy working to bring Austin its first WNBA team. The Oak Cliff native has seen basketball from all angles, so she was my first call to discuss the NCAA’s decision and what it’s like being a woman in sports. 

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Joi Louviere: How do you feel about the new pay performance tiers introduced for the women’s NCAA tournament? What is the reaction on the ground in Austin and with the players there? 

Fran Harris: [Recently], I was speaking somewhere, we were talking about the performance incentives and a girl was like ,“I thought that was already a thing,” and I said, “It was for boys and for men,” and she was blown away. I’m feeling like people are catching up. We’re saying “We’re not doing this anymore” and have finally got to the place where people can stop pushing our issues and our desires and our aspirations under the rug. I’m feeling very excited to be a part of that and on the forefront of that in many ways and to have a bigger microphone to say, “Here’s what we deserve.”

Louviere: Do you feel like the players understand the weight of that? Is there an excitement around this season that wasn’t there last season?

Harris: Yeah, every year is a little bit more exciting because every year there’s a little bit more unveiling of what the opportunities are.

Louviere: The progression that’s estimated for the next five years and how it’s supposed to increase—do you feel like that’s fair based on how much money NCAA women’s basketball has brought in the last few years? 

Harris: I think women’s basketball needs some reparations. My girl Nikki Giovani said “Somebody needs to write the check.” There is an issue of how long this has gone on. That women have been underpaid, ignored, bringing in millions, but not getting any. I think it’s a good place to start, but like we’re seeing in the WNBA, there might be some negotiations along the way.

Louviere: What are the next things that need to happen to really have equity in sports?

Harris: I think there needs to be a heightened examination of economics. We still don’t know the full story and until somebody looks at the full story of media rights, of revshare, of net income, until somebody looks at the entire pie, we will not know what we deserve. In fact, I just started a research company on women’s sports, because there’s so little research.

On liberating women and Black athletes

Louviere: What are the differences between women’s basketball in the 80s and now and what things feel oddly familiar? 

Harris: When I played, you felt like there was a shift, there was something changing in the landscape of women’s basketball. It was a time where the University of Texas was leading efforts to put butts in stands and were doing really well with six, seven, eight, nine, 10,000 fans in the 80s and 90s— it was unheard of. You fast forward 40 years and you’re selling out 20,000 seat arenas. It’s a moment where I wasn’t sure it was going to happen in my lifetime. There was the enslavement of women’s athletics and finally we were liberated and showing how we could fend for ourselves, how we could actually make money.

Louviere: What are the challenges of taking this thing that you feel so passionate about for so long and then having to play the game of capitalism?

Harris: I started my first business when I was nine years old. I’ve always been that person and my family is full of entrepreneurs. We had to get it out of the mud. We had to figure out how to be ingenious to make things work and so I come to sports with that attitude.

Even in the 80s when I was at Texas, I was thinking, “Why can’t we get paid?” I was thinking about going home in the summer and how I was going to make money doing camps. “Why can’t I do that while I’m in college?” It never made sense to me.

When I played in the WNBA, the first home game in Houston had 16,000 people there and I’m looking around, and I’m looking at the people on the sidelines, the people who were sitting in courtside seats and the owners. And that’s when I declared that one day I’m going to own a WNBA team because it just didn’t feel right that the people who were doing most of the labor weren’t participating economically.

Louviere: That’s like buying back the plantation that your family was on.  

Harris: It is. It’s like for the longest time we’ve played for free. For the longest time, our transition from sports hasn’t always been like our counterparts.They become the head coach, they become the owners, they become the GMs, and then we’re still just the players. Thankfully, we are in a time and era right now where we are participating more economically.

The latest on Austin’s WNBA team

Louviere: What are the updates with your budding WNBA team?

Harris: In October, November the news came out about our work in Austin and there was no mention of investors. That’s probably history right there because that’s usually at the top of what everyone wants to talk about—who’s leading the team, what money are you bringing in? I wanted the narrative and the story to be more about Austin and about a Black woman putting this thing together versus talking about all the other ancillary things.

Harris: And now what they’re doing is going through and figuring out the contenders from the pretenders pretty much, you got the money, do you have the arena, is the city going to be friendly to the WNBA corporate sponsorships? Those are kind of like the four tent polls that the WNBA looks at, and I believe Austin checks all of those boxes. So we are anticipating that there will be a decision by the summer. It could be faster.

Shortly after this interview, it was announced that Cleveland won this year’s bid for a WNBA team. I followed up with Harris to ask what’s next. 

“We are definitely disappointed that our group didn’t win the bid for the 16th W team,” Harris said. “Ultimately, we want great stewards of our game to also be the owners in our league. Our investment group has a tremendous amount of NBA and WNBA experience, as well as sports ownership tenure, so, we’ll remain engaged with the WNBA and NBA, and look forward to the next opportunity to submit a bid.”

On Dallas finally investing in women’s sports

Louviere: You’re a Dallasite, so I’m sure you’re tuned in on what’s happening here. There’s a lot of investment in women’s sports, period. What effect does that have on what you’re trying to do? 

Harris: I think where Dallas is the, what, sixth largest city, or whatever, in the country. I felt like Dallas was behind. I’ve always felt that way from a women’s sports standpoint and its girls sports in Dallas are humongous and yet the infrastructure and investment in girls’ and women’s sports has been lacking for me. I was like, that’s awesome, but it’s about time. Also, I immediately think that’s a great instate rivalry, on so many levels, not just with the Wings and our team, but see who’s going to step up for girls and women better. I think we’re just at the precipice of what is possible for girls and women’s sports in Texas, in general. I’m hopeful that both Dallas and Austin, and then some of the other cities like Houston and San Antonio, will jump in whenever they can. But since we have WNBA professional women’s teams, I’m hoping that we will step up in a big way.

On UT being the team to watch

Louviere: How are you feeling about your Longhorns in the final weeks before March Madness selection, especially in light of the South Carolina rematch where y’all took the win?

Harris: Texas took a dip in the mid 1990s and the 2000s and we were not living up to who we were. I feel like Vic Schaefer has come in here and really brought us back to national prominence. So to watch us play the Gamecocks and to see how hard we fought, but more importantly, how consistent we were for four quarters was great since they’re the best team in the nation.

I think it’s doing wonders for the atmosphere and the culture of women’s sports that has always been a part of Austin and University of Texas. So, I’m excited about where we’re going and I do think we will be a top seed.

2025 NCAA DI women’s basketball tournament dates

Selection Sunday: March 16 (Airing on ESPN at 8 p.m. ET)

First Four: March 19-20

First round: March 21-22

Second round: March 23-24

Sweet 16: March 28-29

Elite Eight: March 30-31

Final Four in Tampa: Friday, April 4 at 7 p.m. with the second semifinal starting 30 minutes after the first game ends. 

🏆 NCAA championship game: Sunday, April 6 at 3 p.m. ET (Will air live from Tampa on ABC)